April 23, 2009: On Tuesday Bishop Hollerith asked that the deans collect feedback about the clergy renewal of vows and blessing of oils service in preparation for the next deans’ meeting.
Clergy of Southern Virginia are invited to offer your feedback here. Please click [here] to read and leave comments. You may also leave your opinion using the poll to the left.
Thursday, April 23, 2009
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At our clericus several mentioned that we regretted missed the service this year.
ReplyDeleteFor purposes of a poll, I would like to see the service continued during Holy Week, but on Tuesday or Wednesday during the day (rather than the traditional Maundy Thursday, when ODEC has multiple services), much as this diocese did here a couple other years and as was done in other dioceses where I resided previously.
While I thought it was nice to do it at Council, I missed the day with all the diocesan clergy which has been one I’ve looked forward to in the past. And in the related issue which the bishop said needed discussion, I strongly am in favor of ending Sundays at Council. Our parish had attendance of 140 less than our average that Sunday. I have attended Council every year on Sunday and found myself in the minority of parochial clergy and cannot justify it continuing. Bob Randall, Old Donation, VaBeach
I would also prefer to be in my parish on the Sunday of Council, and would like a renewal of ordination vows/blessing of oils service on the Tuesday of Holy Week.
ReplyDeleteI am NOT just saying this to get in my rector's good graces...it is my own strong opinion.
Peace,
Elizabeth Felicetti, Old Donation, VaBeach
Renewal of Vows. Naturally this can be done at any time. If one thinks theologically and liturgically however, the renewal of vows is directly linked to the establishment of the Priesthood of the Catholic Church on Maundy Thursday. Our Mother Church celebrates this only on Maundy Thursday. Thus, renewal of vows on Maundy Thursday is linked to the establishment of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist at the Last Supper, which all our churches observe in the evening. Celebrating this on another day during Holy Week is allowed and makes sense in circumstances such as ours. Norfolk only had two priests present at the Chrism Mass this year.
ReplyDeleteRenewal of vows at some other time severs the link both theologically and liturgically between Priesthood and the establishment of that Priesthood. Renewal of vows at a political convention of the Diocese, where we are primarily concerned about budgets and resolutions (canonically required), and where the majority of clergy are absent, seems to be to be pointless. It also seems to me potentially narcissistic, as the clergy point to their self importance, severed from the Eternal High Priest, who is the Christ of God.
Sunday Council. Many of us, including yourself, have been banging the drum about meeting on Sunday for many years. None of us from Saint Bride's have ever attended on Sunday. The Parish Mass takes priority. We will not deprive the faithful of the Body and Blood of Christ just so that their Rector can strut in procession in a Convention Centre. I can remember debating this on the floor of Council a few years ago, commenting that we as a Diocese are *Eucharistically Scheduled* but not *Eucharistically Centred*. One lay delegate stood up to comment that he didn't understand what was the big deal about having Eucharist on Sunday. I think this comment illustrates the deeper concerns that I and others have.
There are other ways of doing our Annual Council, and I think we are in agreement about this Bob. But first, I think that we have to de-couple ourselves from the notion that Sunday Eucharist, which empties the parishes of all their priests, is a sensible way of ordering our common life.
Father R. Stephen Powers, Saint Bride's Church (Episcopal/Anglican)
From my perspective the solution to this issue is not an either/or proposition. In an ideal world clergy in this diocese would participate in Holy Eucharist at Council on Sunday and would also take part in one Chrism Mass on Maundy Thursday. Alas, the world is not perfect and people make choices, for valid reasons, that are other than the ideal. Why not offer two opportunities to renew vows thereby allowing clergy to participate in the liturgy that best fits their needs and schedules?
ReplyDeleteSamuel Colley-Toothaker+
With regards to council, I would like to see us move away from a Sunday meeting. I would prefer to be in the parish on the Lord's Day.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to Renewal of Vows, I missed doing it on Maundy Thursday but this was probably more of 'the way we've always done it' reaction. I found the lay feedback as to the power of doing this at council compeling.
With regards to the blessing of oil, Maundy Thursday worked fine for me. I like having a service for clergy on this day (or perhaps earlier in Holy Week) and came away feeling spiritually nourished. I would miss this very much if no service was offered during Holy Week.
I appreciate that we are having discussion around these issues. The bottom line is that I am flexible on all three and merely stating a preference. My strongest inclination is to adjourn council on Saturday.
Keith Emerson
St. Paul's, Suffolk
Colleagues,
ReplyDeleteRegarding the renewal of ordination vows and blessing of oils, in his initial email Stephen makes a good point reminding us about nature and origins of priesthood. However, there is an additional component that I would want us to remember, and that is the role of the bishop in ordination. Consequently, the availability of the bishop to be with us is an essential component, and perhaps the component of highest value. The bishop is the diocese and represents the integrity of the church.
In the Diocese of Kentucky we faced a problem of geography similar to what we face in this diocese. The bishop was located at one end of the diocese in Louisville with the remainder of the congregations being spread out far to the west. We scheduled the renewal of vows and the blessing of oils during Holy Week. On Tuesday we had a service in the western part of the diocese and on Wednesday had an identical service in the east. After each service the hosting congregation had a luncheon for all of the clergy who attended. It worked and provided us with a valuable and necessary opportunity for fellowship.
On the issue of whether or not to hold diocesan council on Sunday, I concur with those who advocate for an event that ends on Saturday. At our last council one advocate for the Sunday closing with Eucharist stated that because of facility fees the costs are the same whether you end it on Saturday or on Sunday. Perhaps the costs to the diocese are the same, though I would want to see the numbers, the costs for the parishes are significantly more when you conclude on Sunday. In parishes that pay for the lodging and per diem for their delegates, the cost is nearly double when the council extends to Sunday. If the value is the common Eucharist, then that can be done on Friday evening, along with a banquet. This two-day scheme works in other dioceses and can work here. On top of that, I too believe that it is important for the parish priest to be at the altar on Sunday. Jay Magness+ Galilee
As I brought up in the last minutes of our Clergy gathering, I too voice the same feeling as Stephen and Mark. Even though I am blessed with associates, I feel my place on Sunday morning is with the parish. Even our Presiding Bishop said at the gathering, the Holy Eucharist is our center and what we are called to celebrate on Sunday.
ReplyDeleteI do realize that many feel that even beginning on Friday would exclude “working” people, I feel that given the proper notice to employers they could make the necessary arrangement. Plus what a statement to their work force that they are involve with church! Blessings, Chris Thompson+
Ending Council on Saturday [neutral, not arguing for or against]: Keep in mind the cost doesn't go away, it transfers. The facilities fees are offset by the room-night revenues. Hence registration fees would have to increase to cover facilities rental fees if the room-nights are reduced. A satisfactory, less expensive venue than low-season at the Lodge has thus far eluded us. Any ideas?
ReplyDeleteI personally love having the blessing of the oils and renewal of vows in Holy Week but NOT on Maundy Thursday. If it were on Tuesday or Wednesday I would be able to attend.
ReplyDeleteSince coming to this Diocese from the Diocese of L.A. in 2000 I have only once attended the Sunday Council Eucharist - and that was the year I was not working in a parish. I am in agreement with others that believe the parish priest's place on Sunday morning is in the parish. However, I always recommend to my parishioners that any chance they get to attend a Diocesan eucharist they do so, to see what the Diocese really looks like and broaden their parochial point of view. Perhaps there is another way to have a Diocesan eucharist rather than on a Sunday at Council, where the focus has been the business of the church.
_______________________
The Rev. Marni J. Schneider, Vicar
St. Simon's by-the-Sea
Holy Week is a very busy time for clergy and I am often distracted when I try to be reflective then. The Chrism Mass affords a time for clergy to gather, to renew their partnership in Christ, and to reflect on those actions that make the Triduum and Easter our central focus throughout the year. I suggest a day in the week before Holy Week, announced at least 10 months in advance, so that all the clergy can plan to devote it to a purely spiritual exercise that may involve some traveling (together--pilgrims), gathering in one place as central as possible in this widely spread-out diocese, and scheduled for a leisurely pace.
ReplyDelete+O'Kelley Whitaker, retired Assistant Bishop
I'm presently at Christ Church, Raleigh as Interim Rector. Bishop Curry offers a 10-2 Quiet Day during the week BEFORE Holy Week. This year all clergy were present except two! The morning had lots of quiet/go apart time with two different meditations by Curry. After lunch it was HE w/ vows and chrism blessings,
ReplyDeleteIt was GREAT to have it the week before - so relaxed rather than the time-compressed Maundy Thursday ones in SoVa (but I'd rather I be in SoVa and will again!).
Ref council: for years it began Sun eve and ended Tues noon (2 days out of work for most laity, so we switched to present system). Diocese of Virginia runs all Friday to mid-day Sat. My delegation, St. Paul's, Richmond, (2/08) arrived Thurs night for hotel, so still two nights in hotel but only one weekday for laity and only Sat affecting both clergy and laity combined - all were back for Sunday church. It works well for them and I thought it to be a good "Va tradition" which works for a diocese about 1/3 larger than ours and could, I think, work for us.
Thanks for listening to a SoVa born and canonically resident 'til death - if only temporarily a priest without a convocation.
My best to you...
Peter Hogg+
I am in agreement that the renewal of vows would be most helpful if it takes place during Holy Week but on a day other than Maundy Thursday, which for me is taken up with footwashing at the nursing home.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am fond of the Sunday Eucharist together and would hate to see it not happen then. It says something valuable to our congregations that we place a great deal of importance on our unity as a larger body, worshipping and being fed together after having concluded the sometimes contentious business of Council. That we model reconciliation and unity is never a bad thing. In addition, it must be remembered that many deacons work at jobs during the week which they cannot get away from for an all-day Friday convening of Council. This also means that getting there for Friday evening is often a real push. The same might be said for our lay delegates, who must be able to get away Friday. That Sunday attendance is down is an issue for the congregation to explore re: what constitutes real worship...
Your servant in Christ, Patti Davis
I am definitely in favor of having the renewal of ordination vows during Holy Week but not on Maundy Thursday as Patti and I have a footwashing service for the residents that morning. I put the liturgy together and love that service and do not nor will not stop offering it because it means so much to the residents. So, Tuesday or Wednesday of Holy Week would be much better for all, I think.
ReplyDeleteReading all of your comments about Sunday at Council leaves me with mixed emotions. As a still newly ordained deacon, I have always enjoyed attending the Eucharist as a member of the diocese and being in community with my fellow Episcopalians which only occurs once a year. At the same time, I remember feeling confused when the priest at my home church wasn't there one Sunday a year because he was at Council. I know that the number of clergy who attend the Sunday Eucharist is always considerably less than the rest of the weekend, but I do feel that it is important for us to gather at the table as a diocese. And to follow up on Patti's comment, many of our deacons do work full time jobs and may not be able to get a day off on Friday-it's next to impossible for teachers to get a day off without using a sick day, for example. And Friday would be a real stretch for the laity, even with prior notice to their employers, with jobs so hard to be found and kept these days.
I will support whatever our bishop decides and am happy to see the conversation that these issues have offered among us.
In Christ, Margery
Sisters and brothers, I've been amazed since I arrived from Atlanta in 2000 at the way Council is conducted here: two nights and days, yet no gathering of working groups or diocesan committees--just exhibits or plenary presentations--and the clergy are torn about where to be on Sunday! I have several pertinent suggestions I'd like to make about Council, but I've never been able to discover who really makes the decisions about how it happens (I think it's the staff at Talbot Hall, who are already overworked; isn't there a professional event planner somewhere in the diocese who would offer his/her gifts????).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'd love to see Sunday be the time to take Council back to the parishes: read the Bishop's address from the pulpit, perhaps, and talk about the legislative and/or missional actions in Christian Formation time. Don't leave folks with Morning Prayer. Don't cut them off from an immediate account of the larger church at work; by the following Sunday, Council news is old news, you've scrambled to catch up, and the sense of what happened is dulled. Let's do Council all day Friday (what, lay people and deacons never take a day off??) and finish by mid-afternoon on Saturday so folks can get home! Eucharist and banquet can cap the day on Friday (and please can't we sit wherever we want with whomever we want at the banquet?).
I thought it was a good thing to layer the renewal of ordination and baptismal vows as we did at Council this year--special for us clergy and a bit of connective tissue for the laity. It also seemed to underscore the connection of all four orders, since we'd just ordained our bishop! That said, why not add renewal of baptismal vows to the liturgy of a Chrism Mass in Holy Week (or the week before--I like that possibility) and invite laity to join clergy? Maundy Thursday makes theological sense, as several have said, but a reflective day earlier in the week feels so sane and helps ground me.
Shalom to all,
Mollie Turner+, Bruton, Williamsburg